Mindcandy: 450 fonts for $450?

classy.

If you have ever designed a font...you know how much work it can be.... If you have been in the graphic design business for very long, you know that the market is simply FLOODED with fonts, many of them very poorly designed and produced, and many of these "fly-by-night" type designers are just giving them away for free.

Which, of course, is very different from and much less honorable than hacking apart Officina Sans and re-selling it for 39 dollars (pardon me, one dollar).

Speaking as one of the unwashed, what's wrong with free crap you made yourself?

I got the mail too, and I was somewhat bothered by it. Even without the snippet that matthew posted [I must've missed that one].

What bothers me is the insane assumption that free fonts [made by amateurs] are hurting his business. I'm sorry, but when I release the fonts that I have in the works, I'm not considering them the competition.

Free fonts are [generally] low in quality, lack kerning, and will not be used by serious designers [or at least not much].

Piracy, that's an issue. I'd be bothered by that. But kids with a warezed copy of Fontographer? puh-lease.

If you consider free stuff that's generally crap your competition, you must have either crap fonts or you must have little respect for your own collection.

...and sometimes the reason a business fails has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of the product or the keenness of the competiton...

Rob:

I tend to agree with you, and think that piracy even helps. There have been many discussions about this before at other forums, and many others have the opposite view, and that's fine, we can leave it alone for another post.

Dave:

I don't know how anyone could lose money selling purely digital products over and over again via the net. My overhead is about 5% or less. Either the whole email is just a ploy during the summer slump, or something is very fishy.

the usual argument is laid out in time-for-dollars, as in time spent developing and promoting a font with expected immediate market reaction paying said amounts back. the error in this method is its basis: a designer can expect to never make back the time (in dollars) they've spent in developing a font. such is the nature of creating art-based objects: the reward comes in historical relevance.

why this guy has suddenly decided that fontmaking is unprofitable is profoundly fishy to me. that fontmaking was unprofitable in strict market terms was fairly obvious when mindcandy started doing whatever-it-is-they're-doing so many years ago. even i realized that when i first started making type only ten years ago.

i disagree completely pk, but I'm in a special circumstance.

;)

And it's the same with musicians, too, but you don't see them complaining - they just want to be famous. But of course their wives and girlfriends have a different perspective.

Plus, if you're not making a 50% cut for royalties, most people would be better off dropping the foundry they're at and going at it alone, unless you're in it for the prestige. It doesn't take alot of technical know-how, effort nor time to do it right. If I had to rely on 10-30% royalties I would need a day job too.

Come on, Bardram. You’re wise enough to know that 950,000‰ of type designers get back cents on every hour they spend on a font regardless of their distribution model or quality of work. You just happened to strike the pixel font iron while it was hot. Good show. Now be grateful you’re in the minority and clam up!

I do appreciate it, number one. I think that if designers were getting back 90-95% of their money in royalties alot more would be in the black. And since a vast majority of the people in my niche give their fonts away, I should be broke according to some. And if I whittled my money away on mailing, posters and secretaries, I would be, but I spend it on keywords. Less is more and all that crap. You can treat it like a business or art, it's up to you. Oh, and Coles, the iron was 15 years cold when I struck it. Licko wrote me and told me they just weren't selling anymore since the '80s.

The email is NOT a rumor. It is the truth. Since 95, I have been designing and selling others fonts for an average price of $39 a font. During this time, I have made decent money for my designers, many of them have made thousands of dollars in royalties over the years; while the profits I make go back into the business in the form of catalog/postcard printing, promotion, marketing lists, royalties, etc. Was this email written by a disgruntled employee?? You bet your ass it was - ME!! Until intellectual property rights change in this country (or until they BEGIN to be inforced) this industry is doomed. I have been preaching this for years. The fact of the matter is, any schmuck with NO sense of ethics or morality can just upload your fonts to a hotlink site, and they are free for all the college "punk" designers to use and abuse without a second thought. Listen people - many people make copies of Windows and OSX, of Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator without giving it a second thought - and Microsoft and Adobe have armys of lawyers - do you think they give a fuck about some type designer trying to make a living?? Of course they don't. As my email mentioned - I am attempting to pay the royalties due to my designers (50%, I am proud to admit). As I have explained to my desigers, you can have something, or you can have nothing. The reason T25 and other larger indy foundries are financially successful, is that they don't pay SHIT to their designers!!

Bitter are the fruits of another man's labour.

Say what you will about how I am damaging the type industry, but if you still think it a viable way to earn money, you are either just niave, stupid, or woefully misinformed.

Not only am I throwing in the towel on type design, I am finished with Graphic Design. The only design firms I know who are making money are the pompous "fucks" who name their business after themselves - ie. Simply Greedy Design, Joe Schmoe Design, etc. And the only way these people make money is to overcharge their korporate clients (thereby increasing the price of EVERYTHING you and I buy) and by slaving their own employees into depression!!! Fuck them all!! I mean, these people are "suppossed" to be creative - and the "best name" they could come up with for their company is to name it after themselves - THIS says volumes about these people - mainly that they are self-absorbed, pompous, ego-maniacs....(Right, Rex!!) The only future for design is design anarchy!!!

Viva Adbusters!!! Viva Zapata!!!

Jeff Gillen - Mindcandy, Jaded designer.

I'm reminded of the old adage that "when you are pointing a finger, you have three fingers pointing back at you." Blaming his poor sales on a dying market, ameteur font makers, free fonts and font pirates (singling out Apostrophe, for one) seem like excuses for his not selling fonts because they actually might be too expensive, unknown to the public, or just as ugly as the free fonts he derides.

Call Pud — it looks like we have another "fucked company."

Matthew:

> Licko wrote me and told me they just

> weren't selling anymore since the '80s.

Which is why they re-released them?! Sheesh.

----

Jeff:

> this industry is doomed

Only if you're hopelessly materialistic.

> I am attempting to pay the royalties due to my designers

Which you spent off, I guess?...

> Bitter are the fruits of another man's labour

You must keep a lot of sweets around.

Good riddance to you - and may type design become increasingly free of your ilk.

hhp

re: emigre and pixel fonts... i think they realized their gaffe a couple years later, hrant

Jeff, I'm calling your bluff. How bad is it for you? Since you're closing down it doesn't matter anyways, but since you are sharing, please share with the group your sales numbers from this year month by month.

Hrant.......

what a true putz you are. Good riddance to YOU, whoever you are. Obviously someone SO ashamed of himself/herself that YOU won't even list your name. What have YOU done for the type/design industry lately?? Materialism, greed and excessive egomaniacs are exactly what is wrong with Amerika. I am far from materialistic - just the opposite, in fact. What you don't know and don't understand could fill a ten million books in 100 million libraries. I pity you, the unenlighted, uninformed FOOL that you are. Get a clue - get a life, WHOEVER you are!!!

Hrant......

just looked at your website. How fantastically trite!!!!!! And your logo, what a vision!! must have taken you 3 minutes to produce!!! Inverse Logic. I think THAT names "says it all" about the way your pea-brain operates!! what a schmuck!! Just proves my point that the design industry is dead. Anyone with your creative abilities and talents deserves a job as a "sanitation engineer" You really do suck.

Dear Typemaker.....

YOU ask me to share my financial information with you, and YOU can't even give me a real email address - let alone your name. What is up with you bozos?? So ashamed of yourself or your comments that you cannot even have a sliver of self-dignity by "claiming" your own comments without hiding behind some fake name...... I pity YOU too.

well, maybe jeff knows something about marketing after all! seriously, getting behind on royalties is pretty much the thing not to doÖ

anyway, if you're planning on giving 100% of the royalties on fonts that are 50% off, i guess that's better than owing those designers money

Matthew....

You seem to be the only person in this discussion who truly understands my motives. I appreciate your insight and your comments.

thanx

(to be honest, i am reconsidering my whole idea - i would rather pay my designers their past due royalties from money I earn, doing whatever, instead of compromising my integrity and listening to some of the shit posted by the pea-brains above)

Respect from a dying industry i don't need - i DO however value the friendships of those who I do business with - in fact - I HAVE RECONSIDERED - I would rather sell my soul than give away fonts for nothing!! Fuck the type industry and fuck graphic design. I will no longer step ontop of another person to kiss korporate ass!!! Mindcandy.com will soon be something I can once again be proud of - I will relaunch in 2003!! YOU JUST WAIT!!

Viva la revoluccion!! Viva Zapata!!

Let all of those who don't pay for their software burn in hell forever!!!

Although I am broke, at least I have my dignity, unlike those persons who comment without even using their own names..... schmucks!!

via con dios Matthew!

jeff

Meow! Things are getting snarky here.

John B.

Yes - they sure are. I am glad this whole "episode" occurred. Since I have NOT filled ONE order from my promotion, it is NOT too late to back out. Even though the response has been terrific, I WILL NOT sell fonts for nothing. It just goes to show that I AM CORRECT - this is a dead industry. Those (pk) who claim it has never been profitable are wrong. And we know why those (pk) are really in the industry - because they have an over-abundace of pride. Their motives are PRIDE, which IS one of the seven deadly sins, i might add. GREED is another, and in my opinion, the absolute worst. At least those (pk) with too much pride are not guilty of Greed. Right, Patricking??? btw. - you've already had your 15 minutes, so lighten up.

jeff

OK, um, one of the rules here is no catfighting, namecalling etc.. snarking is ok, heated discussion fine. don't invoke anyone's mother, please.

everyone has a different personality type, but PLEASE cool off before you lay down words. OK? It turns people off of coming to the site and reading and contributing. if people can't handle themselves gentlemenly, you'll be banned temporarily, at least.

but if you want to call me a lazy/drunk/womanizing bastard capitalist pig, you're more then welcome to. seniority has its priviledges. :)

My typefaces have been distributed by Mindcandy for the past seven years. In that time I have received more in royalities from Mindcandy than any other type distributor combined. Jeff has always worked hard to promote the typefaces with high quality catalogs, postcards and other promotional materials. He's worked harder than anyone I know in this business.

If you've ever seen the type swatch book from Mindcandy then you'd understand why Mindcandy has been having trouble making ends meet. Jeff has always opted to create objects of beauty to serve as catalogs. how many other foundries can say the same? Certainly not foundries that only sell online.

As for Jeff's financial troubles, there is no ill will from this designer. I have reaped the rewards of your efforts far more than you have. It's time you got your fair share. I know that I am one of those designers who is owed back-royalities from the last quarter or two, but that's not really important to me. Jeff, you owe me nothing - our accounts are square. :)

CHris

Down10........

I have read your comments and could NOT disagree with you more strongly.

HERE IS WHAT DOWN10 SAYS ABOUT TYPE DESIGN"

"Iím passionate about typography, and I dig making my own fonts. I want to share some of my creations with you. Thankfully, Iím not going to charge you for using them. Nothing against those out there who are trying to make a living off making fontsóI support all the hard-working font-makers out there and I heartily encourage you to support them as well. These fonts are free because Iím doing this as a hobby, and because I like downloading fonts without the guilt of payment."

You are simply contradiction yourself. You have pride in your own work, yet you give them away for FREE, because (in your own words) "These fonts are free because Iím doing this as a hobby, and because I like downloading fonts without the guilt of payment."

First, you try to tell me that you know why my company is NOT profitable, YET you say YOU don't try to sell fonts - SO WHAT THE HELL DO YOU KNOW ABOUT MAKING MONEY in the font biz?? Obviously NOTHING. You give your fonts away for free - THIS DOES hurt the industry, whether you are willing to accept this fact or not.

Second, you say maybe my fonts are too expensive, yet even at $39 dollars for a single font, one still cannot earn a living in this industry.

Third, I DO blame many things on the demise of my business. First of all, I blame myself - because I quit giving a shit about it two years ago, but didn't have the balls to call it quits then, so I am just as responsible as the other reasons I listed. For your information, Apostrophe, Fraud Nader has done a tremendous amount of damage to this industry, even more than you know.

Fourth, you say I blame the demise of my business on the fact that my fonts are

"just as ugly as the free fonts he derides"

Touche my friend, YOUR fonts are shit. Taking the "M" from the McDonalds logo and turning it into more letters does NOT make you a type designer, it makes you a hack, and a fucking hypocrite!!

Fifth, you say I blame the demise of my business on the fact that my fonts are "unknown to the public" - again, you could not be more wrong. Ask 100 designers if they have heard of Mindcandy - over 50 will say, "YES - they carry some of the best fonts out there - and they have a terrific website too boot" . Ask those same 100 designers if they have ever heard of Down10 - and they'll say - WHO??

It has been my pleasure to make you look like the fool that you are. Have a nice life, putz (i mean, whoever you are!)

happy as a fucking clam!!

8 )

jeff gillen - mindcandy, jaded designer.

i'm the first person to admit i'm bad with money, but hell, either you run a business or you run it into the ground. don't go making pretty pamphlets if you can't pay the people that allow you to have a business. for you to forgive that is unforgivable. in fact, it might be considered stealing, and no better than posting a font to usenet or whatever the kids do nowadays. it might be worse. i understand everyone has hard times, but you just don't do that.

I've turned off the comments for a while on this thread to allow everyone to cool it.

Sorry.

Matthew....

First of all, I was NOT aware of any rules. Second, and i really don't need to mention this, THIS is a very passionate subject for me, and I am a Scorpio, so I must blame my temperment on the stars (hehehe). Third, I don't recall saying anything about anyone' mother. Fourth, and this really goes with the second point - "yo soy que yo soy que yo soy" - I am what I am - altough i will attempt to sanitize my rhetoric, I will not apologize for being myself, I do respect your comments about turning other off tho.

Thanx again for your comments. I'm gonna go have a tequila now - and await for tonites futbol game - Mexico y Estados Unidos - VIVA MEXICO!!!

Good nite, you "lazy/drunk/womanizing bastard capitalist pig"

peace, my friend.

jeff

well, i guess i can't really turn it off properly. just everyone cool it. or I'll stick Coles and Joshua on you all, and you'll be sorry. Josh throws a mean punch, and i should know.

Apparently this behaviour isn't the first time amigo. . .

http://cgm.cs.mcgill.ca/~luc/gillen.html

I'd respond to Gillen's uncouth comments, but it's my personal policy not to argue with trolls.

However, I do wish him well with his career outside of the industry. I'm sure he'll get far with his attitude and professional composure.

:P

Matthew.

Just to set the record straight on my "pretty pamphlets" - those were created long ago, in 1998, LONG before I was having money woes, and long before I got behind on paying 50% royalties to my designers. AND, although I can agree with you that it is NOT fair for my designers to pay for my companies promotion, I disagree that it is worse than posting fonts for free or as you put it "in fact, it might be considered stealing, and no better than posting a font to usenet or whatever the kids do nowadays. it might be worse. i understand everyone has hard times, but you just don't do that" I DID NOT DO THAT!!! Like I said, I printed those swatchbooks many years ago, and I included the logos of my designers companies/type foundries to boot!! FOR FREE, in an attempt to help them brand build as I was.

Matthew....

It is worth noting that T-25 has been so financially successful by ONLY paying for royalties AFTER paying for their own promotion. I can remember an instance when I sold one of Chris' fonts for $39, paid him a $20 royalty (over 50%) and the same font he sold at t-25 he got .38 cents for. SO who is the bad guy here, the one who takes care of his designers and pays them a 50% royalty ON EVERY SALE, or the type foundry who USES others hard work to enrich themselves and as a ladder to build their own "design firm", ie. Segura, Inc - (which I might add, is a wonderfully creative name - WHERE on earth did he come up with that one - OH - that's right - from his over-flated sense of self-worth) - I hope you are happy with your GREED and PRIDE, Carlos. I pity you too!!

Jesse / DOWN 10.

I can see undoubtly that i put you in your place. First of all, you included your name - good for starters - which means I definatley touched a nerve. Secondly, you say you will not comment on my comments, I agree, If I was as wrong as you were in these arguements, I would shut my mouth too, as to not make an even greater fool of myself. I NEVER claimed to be either "couth" or diplomatic - I just say what is on my mind, AND i tell the truth, based on logic!! YOu ought to try it sometime, does wonders for you self-esteem, which you are seriously lacking!!

HEHEHEH - GOT you again!'

Damn this is fun, please don't stop, the third time is a charm!!!

8 )

STILL happy as a clam!!!

Jeff, you are incapable of wasting my time.

And for the record:

1. Hrant is my real name.

2. It's not smart to assume that inverselogic.com is my site; it's just where my email is. My site is: http://www.themicrofoundry.com

3. I've never claimed to be good at *using* type (or graphic design in general), just better than you at *making* it (which unfortunately is saying very little).

You're obviously very troubled by how this thing has exploded in your face - and that's a good sign: it shows you care - which however does not undo all the wrong things you've been doing. All I can advise is, don't be so desperate to make money - that's what's making you miserable - and despised.

hhp

I'd never heard of you or your fonts before yesterday, but i looked you up. You have some nice fonts. You seem like a mean dude though.

I'm one of those punk college kids and yes, i will make it in graphic design because I have talent and I work my butt off. Also, attitude is good. High on life. Design is my drug.

So what do you think about apostropher's claim that you stole outlines from fonts and used those for fonts that you sold

And his contention that you are a hack.

Also, maybe, keep the past royalties and get some anger management classes. Maybe they will take swatchbooks at trade.

I'm gonna be wise and totally ignore Mr. Gillen's somewhat inconsistent and unsubtle bitching. Didn't this start out with a mail about how the free fonts killed the market, and now piracy's to blame? Whatever.

Matthew said:

I tend to agree with you, and think that piracy even helps.

I think it helps in some areas. I'm not sure if it's text vs display that has more or less to gain; It might be some foundries that have more to gain. Hard to put my finger on it.

not to be a stickler (is that how you spell it?) but its actually t26, t25 was the post i made about eliminating a letter from the alph, which, being the math whiz i am t26-t1=t25.

number 2, this wasn't about roasting you, it was about finding out whycome you sent off such an email that any idiot would realize would put you in the dumpster with any designer that gave a shit about cashflow.

#3 it was about free vs.paid fonts, in which you are wrong. bringing it back to musicians:

musicians don't bitch about the free concert ands the people that play for cheap because it will denigrate their "profession". "those bastards give away their music, and they lower all the standards" now do they? there are plenty of good ones that never make it, and there are tons that do that shouldn't. that's capitalism, duh.

this thread is wearing me out and i have better things to do with my time, so much work to do i'm flipping this to someone truly involved in the situation, but i mean what i say about joshua. enough said.

My wife says y'all need to take a Midol, grab a heating pad, and eat some chocolate covered pretzels.

Seriously, free fonts on the web is a good thing. It's part of what makes the web great.

You wanna know how commercial fonts can still sell despite a plethora of free fonts? Make them worth it. No 26-character display face is worth $40. But a typeface with a few dozen alternates, upper and lower case, accents, punctuation -- with a few different weights, true italics and then expertly kerned and spaced -- heck yes. Look at the stuff Hoefler does. That is the complete package and only a fool of a designer would give such a package away. Commercial fonts can't beat out pay fonts in terms of economy (obviously) and originality. But they can win out when it comes to effort.

Hrant, better get yourslef a "real name(TM)" :-)

Jeff, do you have a local Narcotics Anonymous?

All....... its been fun. I agree with Matthew, this is already old - re-hashing the problems of the type industry i could NOT give a fuck about. My conscience is clean, my motives are pure. I could not give a shit about a doomed industry. I wish all of you the best of luck in the time you waste designing more useless type and whatever other endeavors you choose to spend your time on. Best of luck. Go with God, Bye!

jeff

Good riddance.

hhp

That was frickin cool. You guys rock. Next time, let's just start with fists and finish up a lot quicker. Christ.

I know I am a bit late into the discussion... but what the hell is up with all the "Viva Zapata" "Viva Mexico" shit put up by Jeff? I'm sorry but type design has nothing to do with the Mexican revolution. I think it's uncalled for.

"Scooby dooby doooo"

Thanks guys! Fun stuff!

Like my Uncle Ira, the rectal thermometer salesman, used to say: There's no use being an ass unless you can prove it.

I'm sorry I said "shit" on my last post. It's not cool to be cursing like that in this forum. I take it back.

Nobody said anything to me about it, but when I read it, it wasn't any different from the stuff some people (jeff) have been writing. It's not decent.

Well, I will weigh in briefly because Jeff mentioned that I should. I am a graphic designer and card-maker who has bought fonts (since the "old days") from the little guys like Jeff, Chris M., Jeff, Don, Brian W., Pat L., etc. I have always tried to send in my shareware money and otherwise support you artists with my $$.

That being said, it has been tragic to watch these "1000 font" CD's on eBay and elsewhere (including, of all places, Dover Books), stealing the work of people I admire who are trying to survive. I still buy fonts from large and small foundries, but I can certainly see how hard it must be to make a living, particularly in this climate.

I think I'd be angry too.

peace.

Angry, sure. But angry to the point of

screwing those he claims to be protecting?

hhp

I get the impression that some people found this discussion frustrating, upsetting or simply inappropriate. I thought it was absolutely hilarious, especially the bits involving Hrant.

All this is being archived, right? I hope posterity will be as amused I am.

Anyway, I must get back to work. It is remarkable just how demanding a doomed industry can be!

Leafing through the catalogue of the recent Zapfest exhibition, I came across this quote, used in a design in Zapf's Orbis Typographicus (1980). It seems to pertain to both the subject and tone of this discussion:

I consider the variety of humors among men, and despair of pleasing everybody; yet I shall not therefore leave of printing. I shall continue my business. I shall not burn my press and melt my letters. - Benjamin Franklin

I find myself most symphathetic with Jeff in all of this (being of Scorpion descent myself, I have occassionally spoken my mind a bit too frankly). I see the frustration. The real world economics of royalties and marketing make the 'trade" AND "art" of type design very difficult. I do not think the industry is doomed, but...

Matthew said:

I tend to agree with you, and think that piracy even helps.

How can piracy help exactly?

°viva Zapfestista!

°viva FF Zapata!

Since I saw an apology for the use of the word 'sh*t' up there, I'm curious. Are there guildlines for the use of ...colorful language?

http://www.mindcandy.com/

'nuff said!

Colorful language fucking rocks. The best adjectives in the English language start with an F and end with a G.

...like figging.

It can also be argued that too frequent use of Anglo-Saxon fricatives indicates a poor vocabulary and lack of imagination.

yes, i only mean't personal namecalling...maybe "ass" is as far as that should go...

fascinating

well, he closed his site down....

was it real, or was it memorex????

Who was duped here, people?? Me or all of you? A desperate attempt for profit or an imaginative way to "WAKE ALL YOU FUCKERS UP?"

truth is......

you'll NEVER know!!!!!!

Hehehehehe!!!!!

8 )

--

X-Sender: type@constant.com

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 14:08:12 -0500

To: info@mindcandy.com

From: "Mindcandy.com"

Subject: 450 FREE FONTS!!!!!!!!

http://www.mindcandy.com/

--

Odd?

I'd say so.

Meanwhile, I vote for a symbol or ligature for 'fuck'. If there's ever been a bigger need..

Jeff, when are you leaving for real?

hhp

Leave it to Hrant to cut straight to the heart of the matter. This is why we love you, my friend.

All of this would make an excellent talkshow.

Today on Jerry Springer:

"Type Designers on the verge of a nervous breakdown who can not control their cursing"

And don't miss tomorrow's:

"Clash Of The Cross Dressers!"

JERRY! JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!

and

"Extreme Ex-Lovers who can't kern correctly!"

just one more

"Men who don't tolerate the letter 'c' in the american language"

Amerika is controlled by greedy korporations and korrupt politikians
Jeff Gillen

i've been away for a few days, returning to find this usually (somewhat) quiet and (relatively) peaceful blog embroiled in controversy.

i'm not entirely sure what everyone is arguing about - there seems to be a moving target here - but one thing is certain: someone is VERY, VERY ANGRY! from what i can gather, the type industry is being destroyed by one (or all?) of these things:

1. font pirates

2. korporations

3. hrant papazian

4. amateur type designers giving away poor-quality fonts for free

5. money

5a. lack of money

5b. greed

6. people who are making a living selling fonts (which, i am also told, is impossible)

7. pride

7a. ego

8. pamphlets

can someone please sum this up for me? i'm lost.

In short:

Mr Gillen, formerly proprietor of Mindcandy, went crazy [much like Michael Douglas in.. you know, that one movie!], and started taking verbal aims at pretty much anybody who can be blamed for his departure from this fair industry.

People replied.

Mr. Gillen added more crazy accusations.

Repeat until bored.

Proponents of #3 would surely point to my ID-number at MyFonts: http://www.myfonts.com/Person666.html

Laurence has assured me that it's entirely coincidental, but I happen to think that everything in this world has a reason... :->

hhp

It is now 2005 and Jeff Gillen of Mind Candy fame has moved to Acapulco,Mexico. Several months ago while he was still in Austin, Texas, I hired him for a *branding project*. I obviously should have done due diligence on him but did not. He used his font catalog as a reference. He produced some pretty mediocre work and I paid him for it and decided to not continue the project. He is now threatening legal action and barraging me with emails and phone calls (my answering machine is taking those now) and I have told him I will consider it harrassment if I receive any more emails. He wants to be paid for the remainder of the project, that has not been completed and that I do not want completed, especially by him. I am turning these June 2002 web converstions over to my attorney to show Jeff's past behavior. Any other suggestions. Thank You, Linda Wiles